[seedig] Letter to SEEDIG community

[Narine Khachatryan]

Dear Community and dear Sorina,

The letters of Aleksandar and Dusan should be warning and awakening for our
respectful community...

Remember the dark ages, when "a frightful hobgoblin stalked throughout
Europe"? Are we now haunted by a ghost, the ghost of... what?

Sorina, if those concerns and questions raised in the letters are not
answered and addressed properly, we may face unpredictable situations.

SEEDIG's sky seemed cloudless for many participants for a while.

Was it because of the vivid manifestations on the web site about 100 per
cent openness, 100 per cent accountability, 100 per cent transparency, 100
per cent multistakeholderism, 100 per cent inclusion? I have always tried
to figure out how those per cents were counted and by whom?

It is very good to have such a vision for future, yet not becoming too much
occupied or tranquilized by those declarations. By the way, they remind us
of not so distant communist past, rich with goals and missions impossible.

With with this letter I wish to call on you and the rest of Executive
Committee to address the questions raised  in the letters of our
respectable members properly.

Each of us may not agree with all propositions. Thus, I may not agree with
emphasizing such values as altruism, seeing it only one step away from
victimization, which is distinct from altruism by a pale line of personal
choice.

These and other values, proposed, on which the future work of SEEDIG will
be based, such as respect and aiding, no discrimination, etc. we may
discuss with you. We may not agree with every point, but we definitely need
to speak and make it part of our debate.

Respectfully,

Narine
-- 

   *Narine Khachatryan* | Executive Director
   *STEM Society|**Safer Internet Armenia*

   Yerevan, Armenia

   Tel:         +374 11 735421

   Mob:     +374 55 137907

   www.safe.am


On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 2:23 PM Dušan Stojičević <dusan at dukes.in.rs> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
>
>
> These kind of emails, colored by personal perspective, feelings and
> sometimes vaguely memories, deserve a fact check:
>
>
>
> 1.      First resignation in exe com was Iliya Bazlyankov, the host of
> the very first SEEDIG meeting in Sofia. Iliya supported petition.
>
> 2.      There was a decision made in exe com to form a legal entity in
> Serbia, Belgrade. It happened after Iliya resign, and when Sasho was
> elected as an exe com member.
>
> 3.      This decision was supported by the community.
>
> 4.      Then, a first WG on statute was formed – Aleksandar, You was a
> member.
>
> 5.      Then second resignation was made by me. I didn’t attend the
> meeting in Ohrid.
>
> 6.      Then third resignation was made by Aida and she didn’t attend
> Ohrid meeting as well.
>
> 7.      None of these resignations was motivated by jurisdiction or legal
> entity, as it was presented in Caf blog, simply because decision was
> already made.
>
> 8.      Public calls for any WG can be found in email archive, all what
> is formed in SEEDIG as a working structure was not formed behind the back
> of public or exe com members – you can like those bodies or not, but public
> call for them was on the list.
>
> 9.      The petition was according to ToR. Call it disgraceful or
> whatever - Art 7 is not just some plastic flower for decoration of ToR.
>
> 10.   First questions about the particular financial reporting for 2018.
> I raised more than a year ago.
>
> 11.   Petition doesn’t claim that Caf was “diligent tradesman”. In fact,
> it was written quite opposite in petition. This is your perspective, which
> no one said.
>
> 12.   Caf was not "removed”, he resigned. He had opportunity to respond
> and initiate a real voting according to ToR. Support for a petition doesn’t
> mean that people will vote for removal, after his response.
>
> 13.   “communication with several "senior" members of the community who
> share my opinion” – can we call this, translated in Caf’s language, like
> “orchestrating”, “organizing”, “disgraceful method of organizing a
> petition” or in your language “unprecedented act for my taste that I could
> not digest.” Anyway – as an engineer, I like to know facts - who they are
> and can they confirm their positions, if You, Aleksandar, as a lawyer,
> doesn’t have their POAs (in that case, can you send the POAs). – of course
> this is sarcastic comment, which highlights that you, Aleksandar, tolerate
> when you are organizing checks for your opinions, but it’s completely
> different when someone else is doing that.
>
>
>
> Aleksandar, at the end one mostly legal question, as you are a lawyer and
> I need advice. You surely know the basic - that ethic is not a law, and
> vice versa. By my opinion and knowledge, “legitimacy” is not completely
> right word you should use, it’s more like “credibility”. From legal point,
> no one ask is it legit that Sorina and Lianna can continue their work –
> it’s according to ToR, they are elected and that’s clear from legal point.
> It’s more about credibility that you ask, from ethic point of view. Am I
> right? If this is right, it’s about ethic, than I must ask you to comment
> what ethic points are missed in act of not providing the financial report
> for more than a year - is it enough to resign, by the moral reasons.
> Especially after many emails on the list, asking for it. Thanks!
>
>
>
> You can also fact check what I wrote, in the list archive, and I presume
> that this list can clear up some things that was “mixed with feelings”.
>
> Ultimately, my understanding is that we all should base our discussion on
> facts, not on feelings and personal assumptions.
>
> Heard this on SEEDIG meetings: you should fight fake news (a.k.a.
> propaganda) with facts not feelings!
>
>
>
> My two cents,
>
> Dusan
>
>
>
> *From:* seedig [mailto:seedig-bounces at lists.rnids.rs] *On Behalf Of *Liljana
> Pecova via seedig
> *Sent:* 15. јануар 2020. 12:50
> *To:* Aleksandar Icokaev <icokaev at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* SEEDIG list <seedig at rnids.rs>; ichokjaev Aleksandar <
> ichokjaev at ddklaw.com.mk>
> *Subject:* Re: [seedig] Letter to SEEDIG community
>
>
>
> Dear Aleksandar,
>
>
>
> while reading this, with a cup of coffee, I can not say that this knocked
> my down form my chair. You are contradictory in many ways. While you say
> you do not want to bring down SEEDIG, yet your proposals are equally to
> diminishing all the processes and deleting whatever effort has been made by
> each one of us. If you have worked in such big communities and regional
> associations, you would probably know the feeling of transitional actions
> and steps that are like building blocks. By cutting and "cancel", and
> "resign" and whatever verbs you used, your putting a threat perception in
> the community. Please let the transition takes it time and do not bring
> down the willpower of others to make this process as painless as it can be.
>
> And as far I can remember you are part of the Legal group, you did not
> participate at all on our online meetings and mailing communication, so why
> don't you address these issues there, if you are trying to be constructive
> and want to raise the "legal knowledge" of this group?
>
>
>
> Thank you for being full of understanding
>
> Liljana
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 10:43 AM Aleksandar Icokaev via seedig <
> seedig at lists.rnids.rs> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Community,  dear friends and colleagues,
>
>
>
> This will be another long email.   Please take a seat, grab a cup of
> coffee or tea before reading.  If you don't have time or nerves now, read
> it latter, but read it, please !
>
>
>
> Well,  I'm really trying react and behave rationally to what is happening
> to our,  SEEDIG community.
>
>
>
> I understand and perceive  IG community as a community of free-spirited, open
> minded people which is set on the most important principles that underpin
> human positive thought like altruism, mutual respect and aiding,
> tolerance of diversity and striving to make the most out of diversity, for
> the benefit of “the community”, transparency, accountability and zero
> tolerance of any discrimination based on gender, orientation ( political ,
> sexyal , other ) ,  nationality, religion, age, stakeholder group,  etc. ...
>
>
>
> I joined SEEDIG because of the cosmopolitan spirit and energy that I was
> fascinated with in my first contacts with the IG community, ICANN, ISOC,
> Global IGF., EuroDIG, Diplo Foundation ,  RIPE ....  My first ICANN
> meeting was Brussels 2010. I got there on my own, just to meet colleagues
> I was working with on a client large domain name portfolio transfer.  Infected
> with the unique spirit of ICANN I have applied several times and finally
> got selected for ICANN fellowship  for the first time in 2012!  Than 7
> ICANN meetings followed I met and become friend with many wonderful
> people full of life and I eventually ended up in the IPC (Intellectual
> Property Constituency) at ICANN .
>
>
>
> The idea for SEEDIG was born in 2014.  I have followed and participated
> in the growth of this great  idea from the first planning meetings in
> Sofia - January 2015, the first event in May 2015 in Sofia, then the
> SEEDIG 2 2016 in Belgrade, the third in Ohrid in 2017, the fourth 2018 in
> Ljubljana, until the 5th in Bucharest, where I did not attend, for a first
> time ...
>
>
>
> I don't know if Dusan Caf was acting as a “diligent tradesman” or not,   for
> that,  I have no enough data?  As a lawyer,  I want to see evidences and
> confront the facts.   But the way he was "removed" speaks in support of
> his claims in his resignation emails and blog ..?!
>
>
>
> To understand the motives behind my letter,  I will try to make / offer (
> my )  retrospective for 2017, 2018 and 2019 , or better to say a genesis
> of the current crisis... in my view.
>
>
>
> Already in Ohrid 2017 (SEEDIG 3) I could notice separation between the
> members of the community .... (this was before Caf became an exe. com
> member) Decisions were made in closed circles ... what was very strange for
> me at that time.  This was not in the spirit how our mutual mentor at ICANN
> Fellowship Janice Lange taught us to run the things.   This is where ( the
> Icann fellowship )   I met Sorina and Lianna.    Than,  out of a blue,  one
> of the most prominent members of the organization committee for SEEDIG
> 2017  simply canceled her attendance ( A. Mahmutovic )    It was never
> cleared up what really happened and why Aida suddenly  became a "persona
> non-grata" for the rest of "exe com. ”!?  Since SEEDIG was being held on
> Ohrid, I knew something was very wrong.. I tried to get an explanation
> about what happened  but was bypassed, to put it mildly ...
>
>
>
> As announced in Ohrid , at the margins of SEEDIG , that same year, ( Saso
> Dimitrjoski and me ) we managed to assemble a respectable group of
> prominent  representatives of all stakeholders in our country and founded
> the IGF MKD – Internet Governance Forum for Macedonia.  The very first  National
> IGF in Macedonia was held in November 2017, with the great support of all
> recognized stakeholders at national level and support and recognition by
> SEEDIG, EuriDIG and of course the IGF Secretariat in Geneva!
>
>
>
> Somewhere at the end of the year 2017 , elections were held for the exe
> com. The new exe com was established.  As a  member of the election
> committee i can tel you that certain compromises were made in farour of
> gender balance and regional representation of the exe com members.  Fifth
> ranked Olga K accepted the rationale and did not lodge an objecton.  She
> remained an active, motivated member of the community and eventyally she
> got a respectable number of well deserved votes on the elections held two
> moths ago. Unforunately these elections are canceled and reinitiated. (
> later on i will return to the elections )
>
>
>
> This success at nationa level ( fondation of the IGF MKD )   and succesful
> elections for SEEDIG exe com was followed by SEEDIG 4 in Ljubljana in 2018.
> This was very good and fruitfull meeting  in terms of program and with
> the institutional support of the Parliament and the Government of Slovenia…
> so, at least with me, enthusiasm increased.
>
>
>
> But, Sometime at the end of 2018, the SEEDIG ambassador program was
> created to help increase SEEDIG's visibility at the local - national
> level. The idea was to give to the ambassadors "recognition" / legitimacy
> when approaching authorities and other stakeholders at the national
> level. Ambassadors should also achieve visibility of SEEDIG and improve
> the opportunity for fund raising - sponsorship from stakeholder –
> business in particular. There was an announcement / call within the
> community to apply for ambassador position for the country of residence of
> each applicant. As I was one of the initiators and big supporter of the
> idea for the ambassador program I applied to become SEEDIG ambassador for
> Macedonia, from the position of one of the founders and first coordinator
> of the National IGF  - IGF MKD!
>
>
>
> The “announcement” of the selected ambassadors followed when Olga K.
>  signed an email she sent to the community , as SEEDIG Ambassador to
> Ukraine ...
>
>
>
> While congratulating Olga for the appointment, I did asked the exe com for
> an information about other ambassadors seats?
>
>
>
> Out of 11 candidates who applied , 10 ambassadors were selected, 3 from
> Romania, 2 from Albania and one from Macedonia and several other from
> other countries…
>
>
>
>  This information was followed by my  memo ( objection)  asking for an
> explanation of  the selection criterion, because facing with the fact that
> out of 11 applications, the only one that was not approved to become an
> ambassador was me ,  was offensive in the least. My objection was
> smoothly rejected, and the exe com persuaded me for  (ad-hominem) attack
> on a young colleague from my country - Macedonia .... The fact  is that
> exe com gave the ambassador role to  last year student in computer
> sciences at  Skopje university who had his first contact with SEEDIG 4 in
> 2018 in Ljubljana ...  and I just said that according to the ambassador
> program propositions,  this position means seniority and experience, i.e  someone
> who can represent SEEDIG before the national institutions and
> stakeholders, and that this abtious young man will be great choice  for
> Youth IGF ( MKD ) activities , but not for the ambassador ... you can see
> the emails from the beginning of 2019 on this topic ( only one email in
> fact because the “hot”  correspondence has been transfered to direct
> communication with exe com only …)  ( So this is the part where I was "hit"
> ... )
>
>
>
>
>
> And...  if I was somehow ready to forgive but not to forget the episode
> with the ambassadors program,   the "spectacle" - election for the two
> seats in the exe in November 2019 followed and woke up bed memories..
>
>
>
> The voting results showed that Olga K and Fotjon C are the new members of
> the exe com.
>
>
>
> However, led by probably practical reasons (the upcoming seedig in
> Moldova), the election committee  decided to disqualify Fotjon in order
> to favorize  the candidate from Moldova , Marina Bzovii.
>
>
>
> Fotjon C , filed an elaborated objection,   a well drafted legal document
> !
>
>
>
> Unfortunately,  the Election committee was not up to the task and to that
> level of legal communication, so they improvised in their decision and
> rationale.
>
>
>
> I strongly believe that a healthy community would support any reasonable
> (and even pragmatic decision) in favor of a better organization, such as
> the selection of an exe com member from a country that directly organizes
> an annual event - if that was the motive.
>
> My comment on the election results was that the election com. should have
> explained to the community that it was pragmatic to get an candidate from
> Moldova for exe com rather not to offer some "hard to undertand explanations
> related to  ToR ..."     As a valuable and constructive member of the
> community Im sure Fotjon would accept logical explanation ... Instead
> Now, we have another “disappointed”  once humble member of the community that
> I don't believe will run again ...
>
>
>
> Then Dusan Caf  “emerged out the grey…”   ( his emails / blog)
>
>
>
> Immediately after a well-coordinated action followed , I refer to the petition
> against Dusan C.   This petition was an absolutely unacceptable and unprecedented
> act for my taste that I could not digest.
>
>
>
>  I almost forgot ... there was also  a call for WG – Seedig legal entity.  I
> signed up, I am on the web site as a member, but I have not received a
> single email from that WG for LE so far ...  however,   an information
> was sent to to the community that this WG is working and will soon share
> the first results of its work with the SEEDIG community !! ???
>
>
>
> All this ( above )  is my personal perspective of the situatuon in our
> community.
>
>
>
> *Now, **I wont to say **it loud and clear in order to avoid any
> misunderstanding:  *
>
>
>
> *I'm not against **the current acting exe com Sorina and Lianna , nothing
> personally , **nor do I want to bring down SEEDIG**.   O**n the contrary*
> * !!!*
>
>
>
> The nature of human organizations is such that someone has to run things
> but at the same time be accountable to the organization.
>
>
>
> Undoubtedly, Sorina and Lianna are the driving force of SEEDIG! My hat
> down!  But the amount of work vested does not entitle them to
> non-transparent decisions and to privatize the management process, removing
> people who bring quality discussion and progress sometimes with clash of
> concepts and ideas and replace them with ‘obedient characters’  -  Pardon
> my French , I cannot participate in such a community!  That  cannot be my
> association!
>
>
>
> Sorina and Lianna need to restore legitimacy and trust and change their
> approach in doing things trough new elections ?? !!   A wise man / woman
> once said :  " An apology without a change is manipulation " !
>
>
>
> This change is only possible if an accountability control mechanism is
> put in place! All the laurels to Sorina but a control function must be
> established - as in e.g. a two-tier management systems of governance, a
> board of directors and a supervisory board. If we let this crisis to cool
> down ( like nothing has happened )  without “lessons  learnt” it will
> only be a disservice to Sorina and Lianna and SEEDIG will eventually end
> badly, many will leave ... and one day the leaders now,  may be faced
> with ungrounded accusations!
>
>
>
> I decided to write to you after long reconsideration and communication
> with several "senior" members of the community who share my opinion, some
> with more radical approach, some more moderate..  One is common,  we all
> have too much of ourselves and our time invested in IG ... and the joint
> effort is to heal the community, not to cover up or put under the carpet
> things that are not pleasant to be heard of spoken... for everyones benefit
> . i.e the community it self !
>
>
>
> Now, In my personal opinion, unless IG, in this particular case SEEDIG is
> set up, as I have at first cited, as a community of free-spirited and
> open minded  people, which is set on the most important principles
> underlying human positive thought, altruism, mutual respect and aiding,
> tolerance of diversity and the desire to make the most of diversity of the
> community , transparency, accountability and zero tolerance of any
> discrimination on the basis of gender, orientation, nationality, religion,
> age, membership of a stakeholder group, etc.…  then we have already lost
> the“war”against fake news / disinformation / cyber crime...  and we have
> handed over the Internet Governance to the Dark Net - no matter how
> pathetic and “drama queen like” this may  sound…
>
>
>
>
>
> *Therefore, m**y suggestions are as follows:*
>
>
>
> 1. The acting (remaining) exe com members to resign as a moral act and a
> way to save their own  dignity and the dignity of the entire community !
>
>
>
> 2. To cancel the ongoing exe com elections !
>
>
>
> 3. *To devote all energy to the SEEDIG 6 program in MD. **as an act of
> respect to the host and supporting organizations for SEEDIG in Moldova  *
> *(Sor**i**na and Lianna would only have technical supporting rolls to the
> program committee already formed )*
>
>
>
> 4. To set up a *New* legal entity task force composed of members of the
> community with a legal background (not under a first come first serve -
> which is a bad principle) This group should draft a Legal Entity statute
> providing a controlling mechanism, asap !
>
>
>
> 5. A new Statute of the LE would be adopted no later than EuroDIG in
> Trieste or earlier and subsequently an Executive Board and Supervisory
> Board election would be announced under the new Statute.
>
>
>
> 6. The new supervisory board would then,  as a first task,  look  at the
> financial and other aspects of the "leftovers" of SEEDIG 2018 , for what DC
> has been accused of without evidence presented!
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you for your attention my dear friends and colleagues.
>
>
>
>
>
> I would be very happy to hear from you at your earliest convenience and to
> see the community that I cherish and where I vested 10 years of my private
> and professional life,   back on tracks.
>
>
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
>
>
> AI
>
>
>
> --
>
> Aleksandar Ichokjaev
>
> Of Counsel
>
>
>
> DDK Attorneys at law
>
> Str. Mirce Acev 2 / 3rd Floor
>
> 1000 Skopje, Macedonia
>
> tel. ++ 389 2 3215471
>
> fax.++ 389 2 3215470
>
> e-mail: ichokjaev at ddklaw.com.mk
>
>  TLA  Top-tier Legal Adriatic
>
> N. MACEDONIA  SERBIA  CROATIA  SLOVENIA  MONTENEGRO  BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA
>
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