[seedig] On inclusiveness at SEEDIG

[Narine Khachatryan]

 Dear Liljana, community,

 I respect your opinion very much, yet I see that some points raised in my
letter were probably were misinterpreted, because we have never discussed
them together. I wish to clear any misinterpretation or misunderstanding
here.

None of the questions which I raised touched any personal participation
issue. I am a frequent participant of many meetings: ICANN, EuroDIG among
them. Yet, I would like other of my colleagues have the same opportunities
as I have had. I put my answers under questions below:


1. On this point - I shall present my positive experience - I have involved
myself more this year and offered my time and effort to various "seats". I
was immeditely welcomed in all of them, without any question raised.
Believe me there are plenty of seats for everyone. If you want to
contribute feel free to do so. We need people on the Summary editions as
well.

Thank you, of course. But the question I raised was not about me
personally, no private interest here. I have lots of responsibilities
locally in my country and internationally. My question has been more
general  - *about the criteria of stakeholder group, representation,
conflict of interest* and about giving possibilities of participation to
such people, groups, organisations, which could bring more diversity in
terms of representation and diversify agenda to the extent possible. We
constantly experience issues with representing disadvantaged, marginalized
groups, etc. By the way, I have had the possibility of speaking publicly
about this issue at the ICANN meeting, which is great of course.



2. Why don't you make a poll outside the "buble" as you define it and make
it as your contribution towards better SEEDIG improvement and let's speak
numbers?

Yes, our organisation has dedicated enormous amount of time to the issues,
frequently discussed at various IG forums 2009. By the way, I have
participated in SEEDIG discussions since its formation in 2014, and have
sent a number of proposals to SEEDIG organizers, both prepared by me and by
young people we work with. You can go to the SEEDIG archive and many of
email exchanges between us are stored there openly.


3. I feel you on this completely and support you. But this is an issue we
need to address to ICANN EURODIG and sponsors since Eurodig especially
favours IGF coordinators for example and put it as a priority for travel
grant. I do not see this really reliable criteria. But please let's be
jointly loud on this as a community.


Thank you, dear Liljana:) but this is again misinterpreted, as I have never
experienced issues with funding to participating in any of IG meetings. I
am an observing member of Observing Member of EURALO, which is a Regional
At-Large Organisation of ICANN, have been many times invited to ICANN
meetings in the capacity of Mentor, Coach, etc. I have been a panelist and
session moderator in many EuroDIGs since 2009. And I am sure that our
successful cooperation with EuroDIG will continue, especially in the fields
of ethics, young people, citizenship, etc.



4. No hidden agenda. Actually as you can see there is no agenda. We are all
striving on a very transparent way through this mailing list to set the
agenda.



This is very good that we together can openly speak about everything, even
sensitive issues.

Best regards,

Narine



On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 8:15 PM Liljana Pecova <liljana.pecova at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Narine,
>
> 1. On this point - I shall present my positive experience - I have
> involved myself more this year and offered my time and effort to various
> "seats". I was immeditely welcomed in all of them, without any question
> raised. Believe me there are plenty of seats for everyone. If you want to
> contribute feel free to do so. We need people on the Summary editions as
> well.
>
> 2. Why don't you make a poll outside the "buble" as you define it and make
> it as your contribution towards better SEEDIG improvement and let's speak
> numbers?
>
> 3. I feel you on this completely and support you. But this is an issue we
> need to address to ICANN EURODIG and sponsors since Eurodig especially
> favours IGF coordinators for example and put it as a priority for travel
> grant. I do not see this really reliable criteria. But please let's be
> jointly loud on this as a community.
>
>
> 4. No hidden agenda. Actually as you can see there is no agenda. We are
> all striving on a very transparent way through this mailing list to set the
> agenda.
>
> Best regards,
> Liljana Pecova Ilieska
>
> On Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 16:23 Narine Khachatryan via seedig <
> seedig at lists.rnids.rs> wrote:
>
>> Dear Community, dear Lianna,
>>
>> I have corrected my typos and repeat the message.
>>
>> I agree fully that inclusiveness is the key element, yet in order to be
>> able to maintain the inclusive process, perhaps, first *we need to
>> define what does inclusiveness mean.  *
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Isn’t it become a common practice that representation of various
>> interests is achieved just by appointing the same person to all seats
>> available, even in different regions without taking into account neither
>> conflict of interest nor person's capabilities to maintain so many
>> duties.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. When we assess how much successful have been SEEDIG efforts shouldn't
>> we gather the feedback not only from the “bubble” that have been created:
>> the same people participating at the same forums with same questions and
>> same agendas, but go beyond usual circles without being afraid of listening
>> critique, unusual opinions and unexpected questions.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 3.    You said, I am quoting “I can assure that we have always
>> encouraged and facilitated open discussions, always used every meeting
>> opportunity be it at ICANN, IGF, EuroDIG, etc. to gather the community and
>> ask for an advice how to make us even stronger. Isn't this the way to
>> listen to each other? Isn't this the way for everyone to speak openly?”
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Can this paragraph be understood that the same 5 members of the Executive
>> committee always used every meeting opportunity to be at ICANN, IGF,
>> EuroDIG. Speaking in the name of the Community, asking volunteers to
>> contribute their free time, the same 'privileged few' used all travel
>> and fellowship opportunities to go to meetings at all possible forums.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 3.     If hundreds of hours of work have been dedicated to an initiative
>> which has caused such deep criticism (as described in the blog, letter,
>> etc.) maybe a sort of “audit”, why not financial audit is required to
>> what particularly those volunteering hours have been dedicated to and
>> what have been achieved.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 4.     You said  “We follow the mission we all agreed upon and do our
>> best to expand the SEEDIG activities and enhance the regional cooperation.
>> We set milestones and follow them. And this systematic work is the key for
>> the success we had in the last 5 years”.
>>
>>
>>
>> May Community be aware of which mission of SEEDIG we are speaking at this
>> moment. Is there any hidden agenda nobody knows.
>>
>>
>> Best regards, Narine
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 3:50 PM Lianna Galstyan <lianna at isoc.am>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Zdravko, All,
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to reflect on some of the raised points in previous emails.
>>>>
>>>> @Zdravko, yes, we are aware of the current challenging situation in
>>>> SEEDIG and this is why we want to bring it on the right track with the help
>>>> of community members.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, inclusiveness is the key element within our initiative and this is
>>>> why we launched a new election process and invite volunteers to step in and
>>>> help with it.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, we had very successful meetings and not only in Ljubljana, but the
>>>> latest one in Bucharest was the best so far and we had received this
>>>> feedback from our supporting organizations and participants. And in every
>>>> meeting we had key persons behind that - Iliya for Sofia meeting, Dusan S.
>>>> for Belgrade meeting, Sasho for Ohrid meeting, Dusan C. for Ljubljana
>>>> meeting, Sorina for Bucharest meeting. Across these 5 years I can say that
>>>> EVERY member of the Executive Committee has his/her invaluable role in its
>>>> success.
>>>>
>>>> I can assure that we have always encouraged and facilitated open
>>>> discussions, always used every meeting opportunity be it at ICANN, IGF,
>>>> EuroDIG, etc. to gather the community and ask for an advice how to make us
>>>> even stronger. Isn't this the way to listen to each other? Isn't this the
>>>> way for everyone to speak openly?
>>>>
>>>> As for resignation of the remaining ExCom and a practical proposal for
>>>> the remaining ExCom to continue the work for the SEEDIG 6 on an interim
>>>> basis, this can't work in both ways. Either the ExCom resigns and we won't
>>>> have the annual meeting in 2020 (as it will take several months to go
>>>> through the process Zdravko suggests), or we continue our work according to
>>>> the ToR, have the partial elections to strengthen the ExCom, and continue
>>>> our endeavors for the future.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to remind you all that this is a volunteer work for all of us
>>>> and if the community is free to comment, to be active or to stay as an
>>>> observer, we, the ExCom have commitment to move the initiative forward. We
>>>> follow the mission we all agreed upon and do our best to expand the SEEDIG
>>>> activities and enhance the regional cooperation. We set milestones and
>>>> follow them. And this systematic work is the key for the success we had in
>>>> the last 5 years. And after hundreds of hours of dedicated volunteered work
>>>> we receive a proposal to resign or a proposal for Dusan to make "concrete
>>>> amendments to the framework according to which we should function as a
>>>> community". First of all, we have always functioned as a community and we
>>>> will continue to function as a community. Second, why should Dusan only -
>>>> among all other ‘insiders’ (as you put in, Zdravko) – suggest changes to
>>>> the current framework? The ToR was written by the community and its
>>>> development can again be tasked to the community.
>>>>
>>>> If the community wants to make amendments in the ToR, we can launch
>>>> openly this process in parallel and endorse that during the annual meeting
>>>> (while also keeping in mind, as Aleksandar indicated, that there is already
>>>> a WG in place tasked with developing a proposal for a SEEDIG legal entity
>>>> and a governing model for that entity). Meanwhile, let's follow the process
>>>> of partial elections we launched and have this done smoothly and in full
>>>> transparency.
>>>>
>>>> I encourage everyone to focus on the future of our initiative, on the
>>>> planning of the upcoming annual meeting, on expanding our activities in our
>>>> host country Moldova.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you all.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Lianna
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/26/2019 2:03 PM, Zdravko Jukić wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear SEEDIG friends,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> let us be honest with each other, our initiative is in crisis. I will
>>>> try to simplify the assessment of the situation. What I know is that SEEDIG
>>>> in Ljubljana was a great success and that one of the key people responsible
>>>> for that success was Dušan C. What I also know and it would be very
>>>> difficult to convince me the opposite is the fact that Sorina works 24/7
>>>> for the initiative. For some reason there was a conflict in the Exec
>>>> Committee that could not be resolved internally so it spilled out to the
>>>> community and unfortunately beyond.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What now?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I still think that SEEDIG is a valuable place to facilitate regional
>>>> cooperation. Because of all the good heritage collected over the period of
>>>> more than five years now, we should all come together and try to resolve
>>>> the conflict.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How to do that? I would suggest to do it with as many community members
>>>> as possible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As inclusiveness is one of the key values of SEEDIG, we need to get
>>>> everyone back in the discussion and I would propose to ask Dušan to propose
>>>> concrete amendments to the framework according to which we should function
>>>> as a community. After that, we would have a broad consultation within the
>>>> community on those proposals. This should last not more than one month, and
>>>> the final proposed changes would need to be supported by more than (certain
>>>> percentage, tbd in the process) of all the members of the community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In order to facilitate this process I would also propose that the
>>>> current remaining members of the Exec Committee resign until the new
>>>> elections take place. The new elections would then be organised according
>>>> to the new framework as agreed by the community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wish you all a happy New Year and hope that we all, as a community,
>>>> come stronger out of the current situation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Zdravko
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Zdravko Jukić
>>>>
>>>> Deputy Executive Director
>>>>
>>>> tel: +385 1 7007 375
>>>>
>>>> mobile: +385 91 722 3103
>>>>
>>>> email: zdravko.jukic at hakom.hr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: cid:image002.png at 01D39434.9263A350]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* seedig [mailto:seedig-bounces at lists.rnids.rs
>>>> <seedig-bounces at lists.rnids.rs>] *On Behalf Of *Peter Sterle
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 24, 2019 9:15 AM
>>>> *To:* seedig at rnids.rs
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [seedig] Launching a new election process: Call for
>>>> volunteers for the Election Committee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear community,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> the latest developments in the SEEDIG community really made me
>>>> depressive.
>>>>
>>>> At a time when we are experiencing ruthless processes of
>>>> commercialization and monopolization of the Internet, and on the other hand
>>>> the use of the Internet to suppress personal freedoms, is a community that
>>>> her priority task should be to scrutinize these developments, trapped in
>>>> squabbles, nudges and deliberate sowing of discord.
>>>>
>>>> Probably I should have come forward earlier when a reputable member of
>>>> the community was under unjust and baseless attack. But the petition was so
>>>> beyond all common sense that I assumed that reason would prevail and the
>>>> matter would calm down. When another experienced and distinguished member
>>>> of the community resigned from his position in executive committee, his
>>>> resignation was immediately presented as something that was unrelated to
>>>> the attack on other member of executive board and a petition. Again a new
>>>> distortion of the facts. Unfortunately, in every community, there is a
>>>> group that is prone to respond to incentives stemming from low intentions.
>>>> For various reasons: inexperience, personal vendetta, tracking his or her
>>>> superior, or just an inability to resist herd instinct.
>>>>
>>>> With all this said, I can understand why most active and reputable
>>>> members of the international Internet community did not respond: the whole
>>>> matter was from the beginning so much below every cultural level of
>>>> communication that you can anticipate in advance that any, even the most
>>>> well-intentioned, intervention would receive a false interpretation as an
>>>> attack on a particular person.
>>>>
>>>> I honestly wonder which executive committee members and why were not
>>>> able to lead by example and withstand open and honest dialogue when it came
>>>> to the values and the future of SEEDIG, and why they were not able to
>>>> discuss and overcome the differences? Why some executive committee members
>>>> have been afraid of open and honest dialogue and have resorted to such
>>>> abhorrent defamation?
>>>>
>>>> With the resignation of the two prominent executive committee members,
>>>> SEEDIG can not be any longer considered as a broad church Internet
>>>> community but rather as an exclusive club for particular purposes. As such,
>>>> I cannot give legitimacy to the existing executive committee members and
>>>> the SEEDIG as a whole with my membership. Therefore, I cancel my membership
>>>> in the SEEDIG community and also ask to be removed from the mailing list.
>>>>
>>>> I wish you all a peaceful and happy holidays and a lot of health and
>>>> success in the new year,
>>>>
>>>> Peter Sterle
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>    *Narine Khachatryan* | Executive Director
>>>       *STEM Society|**Safer Internet Armenia*
>>>
>>>       Yerevan, Armenia
>>>
>>>       Tel:         +374 11 735421
>>>
>>>       Mob:     +374 55 137907
>>>
>>>       www.safe.am
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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